Treasurers’ debate live updates: Jim Chalmers and Angus Taylor face off in Australian election debate
Key events
Chalmers gives opening remarks
Jim Chalmers begins his opening remarks by noting these are “uncertain times in the world”, but that Australia is well-placed thanks to Labor’s economic plan and “the progress that we have made together as Australians.”
When this government came to office, inflation was much higher and rising. Real wages and living standards were falling sharply, and we were already on track for more than a trillion dollars of debt.
And since then, inflation has come down considerably, our real wages and incomes and living standards are starting to grow again, unemployment is low … we’ve got the debt down and growth is rebounding solidly in our economy as well.
So all of this puts us in good stead in uncertain times, but we know that there’s much more work to do.
Treasurers’ debate begins
The treasurers’ debate is now beginning in Sydney on Sky News, with Jim Chalmers and Angus Taylor standing opposite one another behind two podiums.
The host, Sky News’s business editor, Ross Greenwood, noted this was the first debate between the two.
Jim Chalmers will give the first one-minute opening remarks, and there will be three key topics:
Benita Kolovos
More heckling at Jewish Community Forum
There’s more heckling when Josh Burns is asked about how he’s felt personally, as a “Jewish guy from Melbourne”, about the events of the last 18 months.
He said images he has seen of the events of 7 October will stay with him for the rest of his life, alongside the Adass Israel synagogue in Ripponlea, in his electorate, burnt down.
But I know that for every day I’ve been in this position to represent our community, I have used my voice. I’ve tried to get outcomes for our community that I’ve been inside the room trying to get things done.
To which a man in the crowd shouts, “Bullshit”.
Another says, “lies”.
But it’s worth noting, there’s more people who are unhappy at the outburst, who are also shouting at the men not to interrupt.
Josh Burns says no funding allocated to Unrwa for 2024-25 because ‘standards have not yet been met’
Benita Kolovos
At the forum, a question on the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (Unrwa) has led to the most heckling from the crowd of Josh Burns. Someone in the crowd is unhappy there was $20m allocated in the 2023-24 budget to the aid agency.
Back in 2024, Australia was among more than a dozen donor countries to suspend funding to Unrwa in late January, after the Israeli government alleged that 12 Unrwa staff members were involved in the 7 October Hamas-led attacks on Israel. At the time, the foreign minister, Penny Wong, said the $20m was delivered prior to the accusations.
Burns began saying that after the revelations, the government came to an agreement with Unrwa that included security guarantees – but he was interrupted by a heckler. He replied:
Just wait, you might get the answer.
He then continued with his answer:
Because of the high standards that we have set, there is no funding that has been allocated for the 24-25 financial year as a result, because those standards have not yet been met.
Benita Kolovos
Liberal Macnamara candidate says Labor has ‘priorities around the wrong way’
Benson Saulo, however, said Labor has “priorities around the wrong way”.
To know that there’s still over 50 hostages being held in Gaza or somewhere, many of those lives already being lost, then to think that our foreign policy is to overturn a stance that we have around ensuring that Israel has the right to exist, has the right to defend itself, and has the right, as every nation does, to bring to justice those that seek to do harm against their own citizens …
Yes, we are a strong believer in a two-state solution. But how can you negotiate with bad actors? How can you come to the table in a willing and open negotiation when you know there’s 50 of your own citizens being held hostage with the terrorist agents, with a terrorist organisation that seeks the destruction, the eradication of Israel and Jewish people?
So right now, when we see the shifts in foreign policy, when we see the weak action here … what I say to that is Labor has priorities wrong and Labor does not have the best interest of the Jewish community [at heart].
Benita Kolovos
Burns calls on Macnamara community to ‘re-engage with the Labor party’
Circling back to the Jewish Community Forum in Melbourne: one of the moderators, Naomi Levin, said there are many in the room who feel “betrayed by the Labor government’s stance on Israel,” pointing to a “repeated commitment” by senior members of the party to recognise a Palestinian state, shifting its votes at the UN and an “inability of ministers to condemn antisemitism even after clear incidents of Jew hatred without also calling out Islamophobia at the same time”.
She asked Labor MP Josh Burns:
How do you justify this to those in our community who feel a sense of betrayal from the Labor government, which in the past, has always been a friend of Israel?
Burns responded that “everyone in this group” wants to see peace:
But as the prime minister said last week, until Hamas … is no longer governing the people of Gaza, we are not in a position to move forward on recognition.
Now, I understand that there have been some things that people have disagreed with, but there have also been things that those of us inside the Labor party who have tried to maintain a sensible and strong position, maintaining Israel’s right to exist and defend itself, ensuring that there is a constant voice for hostages to be released, ensuring that there is people inside the room continuously engaging with high levels of the Israeli government. I was on the first plane of Australian[s] … to Israel.
I’m not pretending it’s perfect, but I am saying to all of you that we can’t disengage from the Labor party. And we have to re-engage with the Labor party as a community, we can’t have it so that one side of politics is only for the community, and the community is only for one side of politics, it will end up very, very badly. As long as I’m in there, I will carry that and do what I can on behalf of our community.
Testing under way on powdered substance delivered to shadow minister’s office
Tony Pasin, the shadow roads minister, said a staff member at his Mount Gambier office opened an envelope containing a powdered substance earlier today.
In a statement, Pasin said the “appropriate authorities were advised and attended the office,” and the substance was undergoing testing.
I take the health and safety of my team very seriously and I am grateful that initial assessments indicate no-one has suffered any harmful effects.
I thank the first responders who acted quickly with diligence and professionalism.
Chalmers shares post ahead of tonight’s debate
Jim Chalmers says he is grateful for the opportunity to “join my counterpart for a wide ranging debate on the economy tonight”.
In a post to X earlier this afternoon, the treasurer said:
This election is a choice between Labor helping with the cost of living and making our economy stronger and more resilient in uncertain times – or Peter Dutton’s plans for lower wages, higher taxes and secret cuts to pay for nuclear reactors, which will make Australians worse off. Tune in to Sky at 7.30pm
Treasurers’ debate to kick off in half an hour
The treasurer, Jim Chalmers, and his Coalition counterpart, Angus Taylor, will go head to head in spruiking their economic visions for Australia in a debate this evening.
It follows a leaders’ debate between the prime minister, Anthony Albanese, and the opposition leader, Peter Dutton, last night, the first of two in the coming weeks.
Albanese won 44 votes out of 100 at the debate in western Sydney, Dutton won 35 and 21 people remained undecided.
Tonight, Sky News will host the debate between Chalmers and Taylor, kicking off at 7.30pm AEST – in about half an hour.
It will be hosted by Sky News’s business editor, Ross Greenwood, and the pair will discuss a variety of topics including the cost-of-living crisis, tariffs and debt.
You can read more about the debate, and other upcoming debates in this election campaign, below:
What we learned on the campaign trail today
In less than an hour, the treasurer, Jim Chalmers, and shadow treasurer, Angus Taylor, will go head-to-head in a debate on Sky News.
We’ll bring you all the key moments from this right here on the blog. But in the meantime, here are the main takeaways from the campaign trail today:
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Most of the day 12 campaign action centred on the Coalition’s gas plan and modelling estimates that it would drive down household gas bills by 7%.
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The climate change minister, Chris Bowen, condemned the Frontier Economics analysis as a “scamphlet”.
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Hours earlier, the Coalition energy spokesperson, Ted O’Brien, was vague about when the plan’s promised savings would kick in and acknowledged there was “likely to be a lag” on when it translated to lower power bills.
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The Greens leader, Adam Bandt, told the National Press Club his party would insist on changes to negative gearing tax breaks in a hung parliament. You can read all the details of their proposal here.
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Anthony Albanese firmly ruled out any changes, as did the industry minister, Ed Husic, who said “we aren’t doing it”.
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The education minister, Jason Clare, also ruled out revisiting potential reductions on tax concessions for property investors.
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By the end of today, the S&P/ASX 200 was down 1.8% and had lost more than $40bn in value, erasing most of the rebound in prices that occurred a day earlier.
Benita Kolovos
Liberal candidate says he can ‘absolutely’ win seat of Macnamara
Benson Saulo, however, says he can secure enough first-preference votes to win the seat:
I want to say here that we can absolutely win the seat. I understand the frustration and the anger towards Labor, and you’re not alone. It’s right across the electorate, the amount of people that have historically voted Labor across Port Melbourne, Middle Park, Albert Park, who look at what’s happening here at the state level, what’s happening at a federal level, and are determined to kick Labor out, and it’s with that that I’m encouraged by the work that we are doing.
Saulo said he has 500 corflutes out across the electorate, 60 billboards and a “significant amount of uplift in our engagement right across the electorate”. He said he would also advocate for issues young people feel passionate about such as climate change and housing:
While Josh points out that there’s a contingent of young voters that are out there that are really passionate about climate change, about housing, this is something that me as an individual within a party, [I’m] deeply passionate about. As an Aboriginal person, I view ourselves as custodians. I’m thinking about what the next generation will inherit.
Benita Kolovos
Burns takes first question at community forum
The first question is to Josh Burns, who was asked if he would put the Greens last on his how-to-vote card.
Burns said that the unique makeup of the seat means if he doesn’t secure enough first-preference votes, the Greens will come into second place and likely win the seat.
That is the biggest concern … I really like Benson [Saulo]. He’s a nice guy, but he’s not the person I’m worried about winning this seat. The only people who can win this seat are me or the Greens …
Think about the people who make up this electorate, the young progressive people from Elwood, from St Kilda, from Windsor, from South Melbourne, from Southbank. We are a proud and large Jewish community, but we’re only 10% of the electorate of Macnamara.
And the preferences – regardless of what the Labor party says – are not going to the Liberal party from those young people. And they’re Labor-Greens voters who are ultimately decided … I’m asking you not just to keep out the Greens. I’m asking you to support me in this election.
Guardian Australia has reported that the Labor party is likely to run an open ticket in the ultra-marginal Melbourne seat, which would encourage voters to place Burns first on ballots but not dictate preferences.
Benita Kolovos
Liberal candidate for Macnamara makes opening remarks at forum
Benson Saulo is now up, talking about his upbringing, his Aboriginal mother and Papua New Guinean father, who lived in regional New South Wales.
He said two things have stood out to him since he settled into the Macnamara electorate after moving back to Australia after his time as a consul general. The first, he said, was the “significant failure” of the government during the voice referendum to not have a “plan B”.
There was really nothing beyond this idea of pushing through something that was uncertain, that something was untested, without bipartisan support … then ultimately, for it to fail. I woke up the day after and there was no plan B, there was no vision for what Australia looks like, what reconciliation journey looks like going forward.
He said the other thing that stood out was the government’s “silence” after 7 October:
Here in Australia, what the greatest travesty was what we saw on the steps of the Opera House, [when] the Israeli flag was burning, where we heard chants that we’d never think that we would ever, ever hear in our life. And then we heard complete and utter silence. There was silence from our leaders. There was silence from the Labor party. There was silence when we heard these horrible chants that suddenly spewed out from the Opera House on to our streets to … our CBD, week after week.
Saulo said he has spoken to people in the community who he says do not “feel like the government has their back”.
What the community here is really hoping for is some clear, tangible action to address antisemitism and clear-sighted leadership, which I believe that only a Peter Dutton Coalition government can actually deliver. And I’m really proud to be able to stand with the likes of Peter Dutton, James Paterson and also our very own David Southwick (MP for the state seat of Caulfield), where we are calling out acts of antisemitism, where we are going to support and work with the community.
Benita Kolovos
Burns says it has been ‘difficult’ inside Labor party at times over last few years
Both the Labor MP Josh Burns and Liberal candidate Benson Saulo have been introduced to the crowd and they seem to have a favourite – Saulo got a huge round of applause.
Rebecca Davis, one of our moderators, has again asked for “respectful conversation”, “no shouting, no interrupting and no attacks on the individual”.
Now to Burns for his opening statement, which began with a joke that Saulo has “brought a few of his friends tonight”.
I’m not here to sugar-coat it. I’m not here to describe anything that hasn’t been probably the most difficult two years of my personal and professional life, it has been. Each and every person in this room knows how difficult it’s been for our community and being a member of parliament at the time when we’ve seen antisemitism at a point in which we never thought it would ever happen to our generation, but it did.
He said it’s been “difficult” to be a member of the Labor party at times over the last couple of years.
Personally, inside the Labor party, of course, it’s been difficult. Of course it has. And there’s been moments of time where I’ve spoken out against some of the policies of my party … I’ve done so because I felt that our community needed a voice inside the conversation, inside the room and inside government.
Benita Kolovos
Rabbi opens Jewish Community Forum with appeal for crowd to be respectful
Back to the Jewish Community Forum in Melbourne: Rabbi Allison Conyer is opening with a plea to the crowd to be respectful of different views in the synagogue this evening:
As Jews and as Australians, we want our voices to be heard, and in order to be heard, we also need to listen … We recognise that human beings disagree. We can look at the same thing and have many different opinions and it’s not necessarily about right or wrong. It’s about understanding.
Conyer says disagreement is “healthy”, and continues:
Some of us came here knowing exactly what we want to hear. Some of us came here a bit confused. Some of us came because we’ve got something we need to say. But I ask all of us to remember, as Jews and as Australians, that disagreement is healthy, creating social discourse is healthy.
There is no one right way … I hope that all of us can come with an open mind and an open heart and learn and be heard and listen to what is going to be said.
Join Matilda Boseley and Patrick Commins on Tell me more
Guardian Australia’s Tell me more is your chance to ask your burning election news questions to the people that wrote that news in the first place.
This evening, host Matilda Boseley is joined by the economics editor, Parick Commins, to chat about what a Trump trade war could mean for Australia, both economically and in the upcoming election.
If you have a question you want answered, simply pop it in the comments on YouTube or TikTok or email: [email protected]
Benita Kolovos
Greens candidate won’t be speaking at Jewish Community Forum
At the last election Labor, the Liberals and the Greens were separated by only a few hundred primary votes. Labor ended up winning off the back of the Greens’ preferences.
The Greens say they only need a few hundred votes to overtake Josh Burns and win the seat. But their candidate, Sonya Semmens, won’t be speaking at the event.
Last week, we reported that Semmens was told she was not welcome at the event, with the co-hosts saying it was due to the Greens’ conduct since the 7 October attacks and accusing them of spreading antisemitism – a charge the party denied.
Semmens told Guardian Australia yesterday she would now be allowed to attend the event but would not be permitted to answer questions or outline her policies on stage, as a local candidate would generally do at such a forum.
A couple of people have arrived at the event wearing T-shirts with the slogan: “Can’t vote Greens, not this time.”
Benita Kolovos
Jewish Community Forum about to kick off in Melbourne seat of Macnamara
As we wait for the debate between Jim Chalmers and Angus Taylor to kick off later this evening, another event is about to begin in the ultra-marginal seat of Macnamara in Melbourne.
The Jewish Community forum will hear tonight from the Labor MP, Josh Burns, and the Liberal candidate, Benson Saulo.
The event is hosted each election by the Australian Jewish News, Australia Israel and Jewish Affairs Council, Executive Council of Australian Jewry, Jewish Community Council of Victoria, Temple Beth Israel, Zionism Victoria and the Zionist Federation of Australia.
But it has greater significance this year, amid the fallout of the Israel-Hamas war. In Macnamara, 10% of the population is Jewish, making it the second-largest Jewish electorate in Australia.
Burns, who is Jewish, is one of Labor’s most pro-Israel voices. He visited Israel after 7 October and criticised his government’s decision to vote at the UN for an end to Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian territories and to recognise the “permanent sovereignty” of the Palestinians.
But he’s been criticised by his community, who have claimed he hasn’t done enough to combat a rise in antisemitism at home.
The event tonight is being moderated by Rebecca Davis from AIJAC and Naomi Levin from JCCV.
Dutton says Coalition ‘can’t’ put dollar figure on savings from gas policy for households
Peter Dutton was also asked if the Coalition can put a dollar figure on how much its gas policy would save the average household – but he said “we can’t”.
Because the way in which the system works is that we have an economy-wide benefits … We’ve said, OK, we’ve got an abundance of natural gas. We need that as we transition and decarbonise in our energy system. We want to make sure that we can deliver that at the cheapest possible price, and we want to divert more of the gas that is coming out of the ground here into domestic use.
That means that the wholesale price of gas goes down by about 23% and the reason you can’t quantify the exact dollar is that there is that economy-wide benefit to this gas policy.
